An Interesting Conversation.

I have found that when it comes to blogging, some of the most interesting stuff happens in the comments sections. If you don’t read them, sometimes you are missing out on the best part of a discussion. Isn’t that one of the things that makes blogs so great? They are so immediate and personal-the reader can actually take part in the discussion both with the author and the other readers. Try that with your local newspaper or favorite magazine!

Here at Frugal Upstate I have always tried to maintain a positive attitude, one that encourages people express themselves and to try new ideas. I like to focus on helping people try learn new frugal skills so that they can increase the quality of the lifestyle they enjoy with their family.

I don’t encourage controversy at Frugal Upstate-long time readers will confirm that I stay on topic and studiously keep away from politics, religion (except for mentioning church in a very vague way) and other inflammatory topics. It isn’t that I don’t have beliefs in those areas, but rather that I don’t want my personal beliefs to interfere with anyone being able to come to my blog and learn valuable information from it.

When there was a rather strong anonymous dissenting opinion (centering around censure of Walmart as a Corporation) in the comments of my recent post “Big Doings at Frugal Upstate” I wasn’t sure exactly what to do.

I have known from the start that my involvement with Walmart had the possibility of becoming controversial. There are many people who have a very strong anti-Walmart position. While I understand that, and many of their points, it is an opinion that I do not share.

I never considered deleting the comment (although blog authors have that option). All opinions are welcome here at Frugal Upstate, as long as they are expressed in a respectful way. This comment was respectful. The only comments I have ever deleted have been either vulgar or obviously spam.

I answered the comment, then Yankee Bill weighed in, and finally the original commenter replied.

I wanted to reply again-Liz (she gave her name in the second comment) brought up a good point that I wanted to address. On the other hand, I didn’t want to drag things out and create a controversy like the one that started over at Hormone Colored Days.

After much thought I decided to respond. If Liz had these questions and concerns, then there are probably many more thinking the same thing who haven’t spoken up.

To understand my response you really need to be in on the conversation. I am putting all the comments here so you all can read them without having to go back and search.

It started with this comment, which was stated in what I felt was a very respectful tone, from “anonymous”:

Sure, Wal-Mart isn’t giving you money- but they are giving you things and traffic promotion. I’d find it easier to be happy about this if Wal-Mart didn’t have such poor ethics.

The practices carried out by Wal-Mart are disgusting and despicable. I do not now nor ever will again shop there. I refuse to support their poor business practices just to save a few dollars.

I find myself suddenly turned off to this blog now. I am not trying to sound harsh or rude, but I have strong objections to Wal-Mart. I can only hope their demise is as quick and painful as their rise to fame was quick and deceitful. And they will, sometime very soon, meet their end.

My answer:

My anonymous friend-I’m sorry that you feel this way. While I am always sorry to lose a reader, each person must make these choices for themselves.

It’s too bad that you can’t separate my personal choices from my blog content and enjoy what up till this point you found useful and helpful about my blog. The same way I can disagree philosophically with some of my friends (quite strongly in some cases) on politics and yet still remain their friends.

I do find it interesting that you feel strongly enough about this to comment and stop reading my blog, and yet not strongly enough to use your name.

Best of luck to you on your future frugal endeavors.

Then Yankee Bill* (my husband) weighed in:

Small lives and smaller minds – pot-stirrers and rabble-rousers. Wal-Mart is an easy target (no pun intended) – folks have trouble with their sales, personnel and image practices, big deal! This is a capitalist economy folks – offer something at a reasonable price and the people will come.

If you don’t like Wal-Mart…don’t go there to shop. If you don’t like their practices in employee relations…don’t go there to work. If you’re in a position where that is the only work you can get…be happy you have a job. If you don’t like the job…better your station in life and move on to something that suits you better.

My Frugal Honey does this work to provide a service and help to those who might need it – she has not looked for compensation and has been quite diligent about not appearing to be beholden to anyone. This Country was formed on – and many of our Judeo-Christian values teach us that – giving to others is the good and right thing to do, think about it.

This opportunity may lead to a place where Jenn can reach a wider audience, get some ‘brand recognition’ and eventually even turn it into a paid gig at another level. Who is anyone to tell her that’s bad – geez ‘anonymous’ (LOL), worry about keeping your own house in order and we’ll do the same.

Sorry for my abruptness – I’m not the negotiator in this house – I hope the folks that have stopped by and felt there was something worthwhile will continue to do so…and when Jenn is a famous writer….I hope you’ll buy her books – *Wink*.

Yankee Bill

Then the original commenter responded, but this time she let us know that she was Liz of “Tightwad Turtle“.

I mean no disrespect to Jenn herself. I think she has wonderful tips and an interesting viewpoint. I love reading about Princess and Buddy- I think they’re adorable.

But Wal-Mart is an entity which has grown too fast and too big and they’ve tried to compensate by using corrupted products and poor business practices. I just wish people could realize WHAT they are supporting when they add money to the Wal-Mart tills.

I said I was turned off to the blog but not necessarily enough to stop reading. I will most probably continue reading, because I already have been.

Maybe you could blame my strong opposition on my age. I am only 20 years old afterall- I don’t even really have a house to “keep in order” since I still live with Mom.

Just please know that I wasn’t meaning anything against Jenn. I am just disgusted that Wal-Mart is doing such a thing. In a way, it kind of feels like they’re using you, the bloggers, too. The fact that they AREN’T paying you concerns me. You’re going to be vlogging, which is a bit time consuming. They should pay you. But they won’t. Wal-mart is not frugal- they’re just plain cheap.

Apologies if I really did offend you, Jenn. Wasn’t trying to. And don’t worry, I will buy your books, just not at Wal-Mart and… probably secondhand, lol. (Hey, it is more frugal to buy secondhand, or better yet, rent from the library!)

And for the sake of proving my point on my strong objections, I’ve posted this one without anonymity.

So to Liz (and everyone else who is thinking about these things)-thank you for taking the time to comment. I really do appreciate that you took the time to write in the second time and continue the discussion as well as clarify your viewpoint. I am also glad that you will continue to read. As I stated, I am always sorry to lose a reader for any reason. I get an email from Feedburner everytime someone un-subscribes, and it always makes me blue

To answer Liz, I am copying the comment that I posted on Hormone Colored Days, which addresses the “no pay” issue. (as a note, several others from the project also commented, although the comment made by the Sr. Marketing Director from Walmart that we’ve been working with did NOT appear. Interesting)

The backstory there is that the author Kim was on a panel for marketers with one of the other 11Moms from the Walmart project. When it came up that the 11 Moms were not being paid by Walmart Kim (who is not one of the 11Moms) was very upset. My impression is that she felt we were taking a step backwards for all bloggers who were being paid for their work by agreeing to work for free.

I am another of the 11 Mom’s involved in the Walmart project.

First off I want to start out by saying I do not consider myself a “Mommy Blogger”-not because of the title, but because I rarely mention my children & family except in passing, and never talk about parenting, personal issues etc. I am a Personal Finance blogger who concentrates on frugality and thrift. (Ranked 30th in the last top 100 PF bloggers list)

To be honest, at this point I have no problem with the lack of pay. Would I like to earn some money at my “full time hobby”-well yes. At this point, blogging for 2 1/2 years, I don’t even run ads. So currently I earn nothing at all and spend lots of time doing it.

If Walmart had actually offered to pay us for these spots, I think I would have had more concerns about the project as a whole-what type of editorial/review power would they have had, would their be future issues with them asking me to recommend something that I don’t truly endorse. And if we were being paid, obviously there would have to be some sort of contractual agreement to consider, along with the legal ramifications of pulling out of said agreement if we didn’t like the direction the project went in.

At this point Walmart has nothing except our agreement that we will participate. Based on our word we were sent digital cameras, with the promise that the content of our videos remains our own to post where-ever we choose (we can post them at our own site prior to Walmart, and of course create content exclusively for our sites). There wasn’t even a promise invoked for how many segments we would actually provide them. I guess if I were a jerk (which I like to think I’m not) I could whip out a couple of crappy vlogs without putting much effort into it, take the camera and run. And they wouldn’t be able to do much about it.

As for the publicity, there will be link ins with the printed WalMart fliers, which reach over 85,000 households. I can’t think of any other opportunity that would give me a shot at publicity with such a wide range of people.

I was also assured in conversation with Walmart that if they desired to use these clips or film others to present on the in store tv systems, that those would be compensated opportunities, and that other compensated opportunities might come out of this depending on how it develops.

So from my point of view, I’m actually getting a decent deal.

Up until this point no-one has been knocking down my door to buy my content or to have me write for them. Even without the promise of any pay I have intended to continue blogging anyway for the outlet and the satisfaction it gives me. Similarly, I’ve been acting in community theatre for years and no one has paid me for that either.

I am getting free equipment which will enable me to create better content for my own blog. I would not have purchased myself a digital video camera-I wouldn’t have been able to justify the cost. The added bonus is that of course I can use it for personal use as well.

Through this program I am getting exposed to an audience who I would not otherwise be able to reach. Let’s face it, right now the audience we all are vying for are those that already read blogs, many of whom are bloggers themselves. Occasionally someone will get highlighted in a print magazine or paper and pick up some “non blog” readers that way. The Walmart fliers are reaching a totally untapped demographic-the average American household who really isn’t familiar with blogs. I’ll be happy to be one of the 11 moms who introduces them to the concept!

Add to all that there is the possibility of compensation in the future. Sure, I realize that I’m being the hopeful type. But I also believe that I have talent, both writing and performing, and that I have important things to say that will appeal. So I’m willing to chance it.

Finally, I’m not going to just rest on my laurels, I’m going to try to leverage this with my local newspaper into a weekly column (paid of course) on saving money. I think the fact that I’ve been picked up by Corporate WalMart will have some weight there. At the very least it’s a credit to add to my portfolio.

So while I can understand some of your feelings, I don’t particularly feel that I am being taken advantage of. I’m more than happy to take part in this program due to the way that it is structured, and I don’t feel in any way that it is demeaning or selling out.

August 07, 2008 2:59 PM

Again, I am not posting all of this in order to start (or continue) any type of anger, dissention or controversy. I just want my position and feelings on this to be clear and understood (if not necessarily agreed with).

This blog, and it’s readers are important to me. I know that you all come here because I provide you with useful (and hopefully entertaining) information, and that you trust me. I don’t want in any way to damage your trust or belief in me-after all, my reputation is all I’ve got! I want to be clear and, as Walmart it’s self keeps saying, “transparent” about this entire deal.

Feel free to continue this conversation in the comments, but please, remain respectful not only of me and my choices, but of the beliefs and choices of anyone else who chooses to join in. And thank you Liz, for bringing this up and being forward enough to write in.

*(I love him and obviously have influence with him, but his opinions and choice to comment are always his own)